Persuasion and other rants

[mamadeb]

Before I go off on the main rant for this morning, I want to say that I'm about to hit Rodney McKay citrus allergy overload. And I feel a rant on that subject coming on, but I'll do my best to avoid it.

But here's the main rant.

Jane Austen's Persuasion

Masterpiece Theatre is, apparently, playing new versions of all of Jane Austen's works. Tonight's, and the first I've seen, was a 90 minute production of Persuasion.

And I hated it. A brief summary of the plot of the book goes like this - 8 years ago, Miss Anne Elliot was persuaded to not marry a young naval officer. Now they're in each other's company again, and although there are others who wish to marry them, it all ends well. And, yes, this is what happens in the movie.

However - not only is most of the wit and language gone, they made Anne this dull, plodding wallflower through out the movie. Yes, those of you who read the book know that, at the advanced age of 27, she'd lost her "bloom", and was considered plain and dull in the beginning of the book, but by the middle, when they're at Lyme - she's back to being pretty and vivacious. Mr. Elliot, her conniving cousin, would never have courted her in Bath had he not been struck by her there. She had a handsome older sister who was equally available and would have been far more amenable to his attentions.

But in this film, that never happens. She remains dull and unregarded except when she proves to be more practical (and medical) minded in emergencies than anyone else. She spends a lot of it crying over the fact that Wentworth seems to love someone else - even in a scene where in the book she was proud she'd maintained her countenance.

I'm also bothered by pacing details - in less than a week after their meeting and her injury, the "someone else" - Anne's brother-in-law's sister - manages to fall in love with and become engaged to a man who was still grieving after his own lost love. And there's no reason for it. Time can pass with a word and a phrase in a film. "We've been here for two months, and Anne has been with Mr. Elliot almost every night of it."

And, well, little details. Anne's friend Harriet Smith is presented as an invalid with a nurse, but Anne literally runs into her in the street. And...well. A lot of charm doesn't happen for a particularly charming book with a grown-up romance in the center.

Comments

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Well, that's a cryin' shame!

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

I know! They're doing Mansfield Park in a couple of weeks, and I'm afraid that they'll make Fanny everything that Anne wasn't.

Oh, my goodness. I just found out that Billie Piper is playing Fanny.

And that's...Billie Piper is a fine actor. She's utterly brilliant as Rose on Dr. Who. But.

NO. Just. No.

[mecurtin.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the warning -- I shall stay away in *droves*. Persuasion is my favorite Austen, and experience shows it's one of the hardest to adapt for the screen.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

Yes - it and my true favorite, Mansfield Park, are hard to do.

[mecurtin.livejournal.com]

The only reason I called Persuasion "one of the hardest" is that I think MP is harder.

The only filmed JA I really like is the Emma Thompson-Ang Lee "Sense & Sensibility", and that's because the book is the least-good Austen.

No, on second thought, I also like "Clueless". So that's 2 good Austen adaptations -- out of a *zillion*.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

You think Northanger Abbey is better? Possibly.

I did like both earlier productions of P&P - the earlier one I saw in high school that got me hooked in the first place, and the Colin Firth one. I've been avoiding the latest one.

And, yes. Clueless was brilliant.

[mecurtin.livejournal.com]

Northanger Abbey is *funny* -- the kids laughed at it when we read it aloud.

[beckyzoole.livejournal.com]

Bride and Prejudice (http://imdb.com/title/tt0361411/) was brilliant.

[gryphons-lair.livejournal.com]

Yes, I especially liked the way they adapted the roles that just wouldn't fit in a modern setting, like Mr Collins.

[spiderine.livejournal.com]

If I recall, in the novel one of the reasons Anne was dissuaded from marrying Wentworth was because he drank and was abusive (to a ... previous wife or something?). By the time she met him again he was sober and repentant. It was kinda disturbing to me how they scissored out that little detail and made it seem that the lack of money and social standing was the only reason for the objection. Wentworth's previous difficulties made the objections more plausible, the choice more difficult and the decision more moving.

Just my opinion.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

*Elliot* drank and was offensive to his wife.

Wentworth was never married and was a perfect gentleman.

[bethbethbeth.livejournal.com]

I was just going to say what Deb said. Wentworth was a paragon. *g*

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I wrote a story pairing Elliot with Henry Crawford, but I wrote it at too great a distance from Persuasion, and made Elliot a decent man, not the sociopath that Austen portrays him as. So, the story doesn't work.

I still like the way I wrote Mr. Crawford, though.

[bethbethbeth.livejournal.com]

Absolutely agreed. After thirty minutes, I started channel surfing from boredom, and even though I watched the last half hour straight through, I couldn't possibly have cared less about either one of them. A pity, since I love the book.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

I watched it backwards. We were watching "Jewish Americans" (recommended) on a different PBS station, but my husband needed to do something at 10PM. We were recording both, so it was a simple matter to switch to 13 and watch the end of Persuasion (who is this sad person running out of the concert?)

Afterwards, I watched Persuasion from the beginning, and wondered what this charmless thing was.

[bethbethbeth.livejournal.com]

Aargh! I knew there was something on that I wanted to watch. That program was on channel 21, right? Ah well, I'm sure it'll air again.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

Yes! And there will be more installments, too. I have to make sure my DVR is set up to get it.

What was really cool? At one point, we heard a voice that sounded familiar. Because it was - Jonathan grew up hearing him speak every Shabbos. Rabbi Saul Berman - a man we both respect and esteem.

[bethbethbeth.livejournal.com]

Oh, that's very, very cool. :)

[chaos-wrangler.livejournal.com]

G's mom forwarded us a link to a preview/teaser for this on-line, and I thought I wouldn't be all that interested but I'd at least watch the on-line video, and then that included Rabbi Berman and I decided I'd want to watch the whole thing after all.

Rabbi Berman has a wonderful, thoughtful style.

[gingicat]

Drat. It's sitting on the TiVo and I was really hoping. :(

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

I know. I was looking forward to it all afternoon myself.

[rosehiptea.livejournal.com]

I saw that they were showing them, but being that I'm rather stupid I couldn't figure out what versions they were.

I have a box set of the BBC versions, which I haven't watched yet though I did see their original version of Pride and Prejudice ages ago and later the Colin Firth one (which is apparently the one they're going to show.)

So, yeah, I'm confused.

The only version of Persuasion I ever saw was the this film (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114117/) which I saw in the theater but it doesn't sound like you're describing that one.

And if they mess with Fanny Price I wash my hands of them. I'm one of the poor girl's only fans.

(I didn't see Mr. Elliot as a sociopath so much as really manipulative and a jerk. And the same can be said of Henry Crawford though if I had to pick one to date I'd pick Henry, he's more honest about what he is. But maybe I'm just not reading between the lines enough.)

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

It's a new production. I've only seen part of the one you reference and it was so much better.

I'm not a fan of Miss Price by any means (If you must know, I killed her off - figuring that she couldn't ride if she were pregnant and pregnancy would also be a risk. There's even a story in my head where widowed Edmund marries Kitty Bennet.) but she's a well-realized character and I don't want her tampered with.

JA presented Mr. Elliot as having cold eyes and not caring for anyone beyond their use. That's classic. Doesn't mean he's a murderer, though.

On the other hand - can you imagine him and, say, Becky Sharp? :)

Henry loved his uncle, loved his sister and, I believe, loved Fanny enough to try changing. He was just weak. And a manipulative jerk, but also weak. If he'd been a touch stronger, he'd have gone back to his estate, and eventually gotten Fanny. Sociopaths don't feel that way about other people. It's one of the definitions.

[rosehiptea.livejournal.com]

Edmund and Kitty... hmm... I can't quite see it but better her than Mary Crawford. I just... don't like her, and I never understood why Edmund was so taken in by her. I understand why people don't like Fanny or don't like her with Edmund (though I see her as being beaten down by life and the constant reminders that she was no one, and I think they were probably happy together because Edmund certainly knew her and her personality.)

Mary's brother is another story. I think he was weak but had potential to be a good person, and it's canon that he tried to change to get Fanny. I think it was too late for Fanny to accept him, and I don't know if they would have been happy together if Fanny couldn't change too, but I could be wrong on all that. And anyway maybe she could change, and either way by the time he wanted to marry Fanny it was because he honestly cared for her and wanted to treat her decently. So no, I don't see him as a sociopath. He was a bit of a player, in a time when the consequences of that for women were way worse than they were for men, but that's about all I can say about him.

(Though I think it was unfair for Mary to blame Fanny when Henry decided to run off and seduce a married woman instead. That's a small part of why I really just don't like Mary Crawford.)

Elliot, well, maybe it's just my general cynicism that he was a man with a little power and a lot of charm who really didn't need to care for anyone beyond their use, and lots of people are like that. Even not having finished Vanity Fair I can see him as quite the OTP with Becky Sharp though.

[gryphons-lair.livejournal.com]

Mary's brother is another story.

I noticed Austen was very careful to give them both reasons for being as they were. Both had bad role models growing up. If you put together what Henry and Mary say about their uncle and aunt, you come up with the Admiral, a hard-drinking, fairly selfish man who neglected his wife, and Mrs Admiral (I don't recall if their last name is Crawford) who was a vain, flightly sort who I suspect spent a lot of time whining to her niece about how cruel her uncle was. Add that they were both over-indulged by their respective role models and it's not hard to see how they could turn out as they did.

But I agree, Henry had the potential to turn into a decent human being, but he didn't have the basic integrity to not give in to temptation when it was thrown in his path.

[gryphons-lair.livejournal.com]

I own that set, too. The Pride & Prejudice in there will always be my favorite, since it's the one that introduced me to Austen. It also insured that Mr Firth's Darcy will always be second-best to David Rintoul's, for me.

Persuasion is really well done. Ann looks rather mousy and easily bullied at the beginning, but as her self-confidence increases so does her appearance and ability to stand up for herself. They also handled Capt. Wentworth's gradual realization that the interference that originally intercepted them might have had some reasonable basis very well. And while there were some bits I wish they hadn't cut, overall the story is intact.

The Northanger Abbey is also good, though it's always been a bit too obvious that Catherine isn't particularly bright for me to like that story much.

The Emma and Sense & Sensibility are all right, but I prefer the Emma Thompson versions. I can't recall details of Mansfield Park at the moment. Not sure I've watched it yet.

[rosehiptea.livejournal.com]

I did like David Rintoul as Darcy, I remember that!

No, Catherine isn't bright, but she had a good heart at least I suppose. I heard this version was a bit weird but I look forward to watching it eventually.

Thank you. That helps a lot.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

David Rintoul is in the original BBC production of P&P, right? The one they showed in 1980? He's the one I see in my head.

In the one I saw last night,Anne does NOT increase in beauty.

[gryphons-lair.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's the one!

Thinking about it, I think most of the effect for Anne in that version of Persuasion is due to costume and posture.

I shall definitely avoid the latest version. It sounds wretched.

[beckyzoole.livejournal.com]

I thought the Amanda Root/Ciaran Hinds "Persuasion" was pretty good. Anne was a bit too shy, a bit more of a wallflower than I would have liked... but not too much. Wentworth was absolutely perfect.

[gryphons-lair.livejournal.com]

Yes, I could've done with a bit less easily-startled-rabbit in the early Anne, but overall I thought they did very well.

[kelilah.livejournal.com]

Yep, we watched it too. And by half an hour in, I'd gotten the book off the shelf to check my "wait, did *that* happen?"s. The answer was almost always no. This Anne was always on the verge of tears or hyperventilation, and Wentworth was far, far too pretty. And Sir Walter wasn't flighty enough. And the actress playing Mary seemed to have studied Sophie Thompson's vocal mannerisms from the wonderful Amanda Root/Ciaran Hinds version. I think my only problem with the latter one (the 1995 one linked to upthread) was the kiss in the street at the end, but at least it was chaste and tasteful, unlike the one in last night's. Blech.

[rosehiptea.livejournal.com]

I didn't care for the kiss either, and thought the film would have been way better without it, but I agree that it could have been worse. I also didn't like the portrayal of the older sister, who didn't look attractive when she really was supposed to be, and was too unsubtle in her obnoxiousness. But overall it was quite good and I really felt immersed in the period which was a treat.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

I'm reading it off gutenberg right now. And it's just wrong.

That sort of kiss? Would be akin to taking off her clothing today. Not that she was wearing enough - I can't believe she ran out of the house without a hat or coat. It just wasn't done. (And she also ran all over Bath. *Sigh*)

[gryphons-lair.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the warning. I won't go out of my way to catch this series if it's as bad as that.

I've never understood why anyone would adapt an Austen and then change the language. It's like an episode of Miss Marple on Mystery where they changed who the murderer is. (Yes, an actual episode.) Why bother calling it Austen/Christie if you're going to throw out what made the story Austen/Christie to begin with?

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

Didn't they do that with the latest adaptation of P&P? Move it back twenty years and make it...different?

I mean, apparently it made people *cry*. And that's totally wrong.

Half the pleasure in reading Dear Jane is her *language*.

[gryphons-lair.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think they "modernized" the language somewhat, and moved the locations of several of the key scenes from indoors to outdoors.

They also did what appears to be the current hot thing for "historical realism" which is to have the characters slopping through mud-- the Bennetts were digging their own potatoes in one scene, IIRC. And at one point a blatantly intact boar wandered through the kitchen.

Either of which would be at least possible if Mr Bennett were a farmer, or even a "gentleman farmer", but not for a man of property who had servants to tend to the dirty work.

[beck-liz.livejournal.com]

I love the version of Persuasion that rosehiptea mentioned; you should try to see all of it. It's beautiful. The one Sunday night... meh. I had trouble paying attention to it. I mean, part of it was that I watched it directly after Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles and it was a massive change in tone. But the rest of it was that I was just bored.