On Modesty and Politics (rantish)
Jan. 9th, 2007 03:35 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mamadebA couple of months ago, I subscribed to Wendy Shalit's group blog, ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-syndicated.gif)
modestly_yours.
I put it on my jblog filter because that seemed the place for it. I have a different one for my more political blogs. But when I read it, I feel rather odd.
Yes, modesty is a big part of my life. It, for me, comes with accepting a halachic way of life. I've studied the issues and made my own conclusions, and I've also considered other things - the place I work, the place I live, the place I daaven, the things I do in my off time, and my own general preferences - not to mention what I think looks good on me. And that last, btw, isn't frivolous. One is supposed to feel that one looks good. After all, someone who dressed unattractively, or just feels they're dressing unattractively, will stand out more than otherwise.
So. My tops cover my elbows and my collar bones (and I have visible collar bones now!), and I prefer them to reach my hips and my skirts do not have slits and do cover my knees whether I'm sitting, standing or climbing stairs. I try to avoid wearing garments that are too tight. Also, I just prefer very full skirts because then I have complete freedom of movement. Pockets are also good. :)
And, of course, I cover my hair with an assortment of color-coordinated headscarves. I try to avoid dull clothes because they don't look good on me, and if I do wear something like that, I'll brighten it up with jewelry or a sparkly scarf or even a pair of handmade socks. I don't wear make-up because I don't like it on my face and I don't polish my nails, but I see nothing wrong with doing either.
I don't dress this way out of shame. I do it because I'm more comfortable keeping some things private, and because I do believe Jewish law requires me to do it. As I said, I've studied the issue.
Anyway, this is my way of dressing. I do wish that modesty was more more generally accepted - I'd think it would be hard for anyone to gain respect with body parts hanging out (that is, I think a man in very tight trousers would also have this problem) and I don't think a person's self worth should be tied up entirely in how her body appears. And, yes, because I'd like to not have to reject 3/4 of a catalog because of necklines or slits in skirts. (And on the other side of the coin - it's as hard to avoid being body conscious when one is keeping things covered as it is when one is keeping things bare, so I'm not sure what one wins.)
But I don't think I have a right to dictate to others what they should wear. I might advise someone coming to a synagogue event to take a wrap with them if they want to wear something that exposes chest or shoulders, but that's about it.
So here's this group blog. And they're all for pushing the modesty agenda on the world (not Wendy Shalit herself - she's content with putting the case forward and letting others decide) and they're very judgemental on those who don't feel as they do. Again, I think modesty is a good idea, but if someone else feels differently - fine. What also amuses me is that a lot of the people on the blog appear to be Mormon and they're always linking to "modest clothing" sales sites - and they're *not* modest by my own standards. They're hardly immodest - I'm just personally stricter.
And then I can see glimmers that these people are also politically much further to the right than I am. And, honestly, that's not all that hard, as I'm pretty much left of center for most (not all) issues. This is not a deep, dark secret. But it makes me uncomfortable to read about people objecting to the HPV vaccine because it's best for girls just after adolescence, or to legislate other things that I think are personal choices or just...I'm not sure.
I dress the way I dress for a number of reasons, but my politics are my politics and in neither case do I need to have the world believe as I do - except it would be easier to shop.
modestly_yours. I put it on my jblog filter because that seemed the place for it. I have a different one for my more political blogs. But when I read it, I feel rather odd.
Yes, modesty is a big part of my life. It, for me, comes with accepting a halachic way of life. I've studied the issues and made my own conclusions, and I've also considered other things - the place I work, the place I live, the place I daaven, the things I do in my off time, and my own general preferences - not to mention what I think looks good on me. And that last, btw, isn't frivolous. One is supposed to feel that one looks good. After all, someone who dressed unattractively, or just feels they're dressing unattractively, will stand out more than otherwise.
So. My tops cover my elbows and my collar bones (and I have visible collar bones now!), and I prefer them to reach my hips and my skirts do not have slits and do cover my knees whether I'm sitting, standing or climbing stairs. I try to avoid wearing garments that are too tight. Also, I just prefer very full skirts because then I have complete freedom of movement. Pockets are also good. :)
And, of course, I cover my hair with an assortment of color-coordinated headscarves. I try to avoid dull clothes because they don't look good on me, and if I do wear something like that, I'll brighten it up with jewelry or a sparkly scarf or even a pair of handmade socks. I don't wear make-up because I don't like it on my face and I don't polish my nails, but I see nothing wrong with doing either.
I don't dress this way out of shame. I do it because I'm more comfortable keeping some things private, and because I do believe Jewish law requires me to do it. As I said, I've studied the issue.
Anyway, this is my way of dressing. I do wish that modesty was more more generally accepted - I'd think it would be hard for anyone to gain respect with body parts hanging out (that is, I think a man in very tight trousers would also have this problem) and I don't think a person's self worth should be tied up entirely in how her body appears. And, yes, because I'd like to not have to reject 3/4 of a catalog because of necklines or slits in skirts. (And on the other side of the coin - it's as hard to avoid being body conscious when one is keeping things covered as it is when one is keeping things bare, so I'm not sure what one wins.)
But I don't think I have a right to dictate to others what they should wear. I might advise someone coming to a synagogue event to take a wrap with them if they want to wear something that exposes chest or shoulders, but that's about it.
So here's this group blog. And they're all for pushing the modesty agenda on the world (not Wendy Shalit herself - she's content with putting the case forward and letting others decide) and they're very judgemental on those who don't feel as they do. Again, I think modesty is a good idea, but if someone else feels differently - fine. What also amuses me is that a lot of the people on the blog appear to be Mormon and they're always linking to "modest clothing" sales sites - and they're *not* modest by my own standards. They're hardly immodest - I'm just personally stricter.
And then I can see glimmers that these people are also politically much further to the right than I am. And, honestly, that's not all that hard, as I'm pretty much left of center for most (not all) issues. This is not a deep, dark secret. But it makes me uncomfortable to read about people objecting to the HPV vaccine because it's best for girls just after adolescence, or to legislate other things that I think are personal choices or just...I'm not sure.
I dress the way I dress for a number of reasons, but my politics are my politics and in neither case do I need to have the world believe as I do - except it would be easier to shop.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2007-01-10 04:29 pm (UTC)My feelings about revealing clothing is complex - I really do believe that if a woman wants to dress that way, she should do it - in appropriate times and places, such as clubs and parties. I don't think that short skirts and tiny tops are an invitation to rape or even unwanted touching, which is assault. I do think they are an invitation to *look*, though.
I also happen to think that they're losing something. Part of sexiness (not *all* - there are so many factors to it, many not tangible)is the revealing of parts normally not revealed. On old Star Trek, the costumes would be open down the sides, which is a part of the body rarely seen. They were also designed to look like they might fall off at any time - a securely fastened bikini is less sexy than an evening gown that's barely hanging on.
There's a reason why turn-of-the-20th C men referred to a woman's ankles - they were the only part of the leg they could see, and that only intermittently. Or, in the Talmud, there's a passage forbidding women to wear face veils. Why? Because these were designed to flutter in the wind, hiding and displaying the woman's face, which has a great effect then simply not wearing the veil at all.
(But I can also rant about how fashion considers that all clothes should be "sexy" - that some clothes should be, fine, but not all.)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-01-10 05:54 pm (UTC)But yes, I think a woman should be able to wear whatever she wants--if she wants to wear a burkha she can wear that. It only becomes an issue when it's forced or considered to say things about the woman that it doesn't necessarily say.
For instance, a woman wearing a short skirt doesn't mean she would be happy if any man in the room raped her, obviously. Though it might actually say plenty of other things about her--you just don't know unless you really know the individual. Perhaps there are women who like wearing very short skirts they have to pull down a lot (which is pretty much all those skirts mean to me. I have one that I like the way it looks fine, but I'm unable to walk from the subway to work without feeling it creeping up to my waist on the side where my bag is. It's just irritating). There's nothing more unattractive than looking at a person who's showing more than they want to be showing, or being aware an uncomfortable in their clothes for whatever reason. I'm fine walking around in a pair of shorts the same length as the skirt, because I don't feel like they're moving around.
It seems to me that part of growing up is figuring out what clothes you look/feel good in, and that's sometimes going to depend on your body (as well as personality and many other things). Like, one woman wearing a v-neck might be very different than me wearing a v-neck, because she's far more aware of her cleavage. (I don't have any, really, so can probably reveal more while revealing less and so not being self-conscious.)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-01-10 06:06 pm (UTC)I haven't worn a short skirt in a very long time, and then I only owned the one. I only felt comfortable wearing it with black tights. However, it was denim and didn't ride up, so I never felt I had to tug it down. I also was less than pleased at the way a junior high school boy looked at me in it, and changed to jeans.
As for the rant - one day. :)