Thoughts - random and spoilerish.
Jul. 16th, 2005 09:55 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mamadebI got the book this morning at 8:48AM. I ran downstairs in a nightshirt, an inside-out skirt and a snood, which was better than my husband's baseball cap. I carefully opened the package so as to avoid tearing any letters, and I read until I finished at 2:35PM.
So. First and foremost.
Severus Snape is NOT a traitor or a murderer. He did exactly as Dumbledore wanted him to do. And I refuse to hear or believe anything else. The other choices were unacceptable - either Draco becomes a murderer or Snape dies, due to that oath he took. Which Dumbledore was fully aware of. I don't think Dumbledore expected to survive that night.
This also makes Snape more valuable to the Order as he goes deeper undercover.
The book was much better than OotP. It was tighter, it was impossible to put down and there were no boring parts. And it had me laughing and had me crying. Oh, goodness. Madam Bones! That hit me hard and fast, you know?
And I'm going to say right now that I am so jealous of the shippers. Because at least some of you got your ships. And while my own OTP isn't quite ruined, it's been made much more difficult - Harry is still fascinated by Malfoy, enough that he forgets even Ginny. So.
And I can even rationalize Remus/Tonks by saying it doesn't preclude Sirius at all. Even if I really don't like it.
But I'll never see my OTPs. And, well. Life isn't fair, is it? :)
And my whole house-elf theory? Shot to pieces. Also, my current fic? More thoroughly jossed than I could have ever imagined, but I'm still writing it. I hope someone reads it when I'm done.
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(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-17 02:13 am (UTC)flirting withsnarking at Harry ("Yeah, I'm really going to tell you, because it's your business, Potter," sneered Malfoy. "You'd better hurry up, they'll be waiting for 'the Chosen Captain' - 'the Boy Who Scored' - whatever they call you these days."; Draco ultimately not being able to go through with it; Harry feeling sorry for him (if only a bit), and so on. As some people have said, the only thing missing was the grand final scene where they get together!(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-17 03:11 pm (UTC)Or just really, really, really confused.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-18 06:55 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-18 07:14 pm (UTC)It's also Fleur. He's a bit bowled over when she first shows up, but he gets distracted by breakfast. Ron, on the other hand, never stops being affected by her.
Which is about the same thing that happened with first the Veelas and then with Fleur in GoF. He gets affected on first meeting and then it goes away, never to return.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-17 02:40 am (UTC)And Malfoy lowered his wand, because he is so not a killer.
My first impression: this book rocked.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-17 04:27 am (UTC)And I think Harry will hate Snape all the more for it when that seed of doubt gets planted, because Harry already very much dislikes himself for having made Dumbledore drink the potion needlessly.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-17 03:12 pm (UTC)This is what we need. A suicidal, homicidal teenager and his best buddies going on a Quest.
Which actually, yeah, sounds pretty good.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-20 06:35 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-26 08:40 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-17 03:18 pm (UTC)He didn't leave a note, but the portrait knows. A
Draco isn't a killer. He's a pampered spoiled little boy who doesn't want to kill, and who doesn't have to do it.
Harry's a killer. He needs to be one.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-18 07:36 am (UTC)Pampered, yes. Spoiled, yes. Doesn't want to? Maybe. More like "can't" -- which we've known all along. Draco is a typical bully, who can't cut it when it comes down to reality.
Tom Riddle, Jr. and Snape, as well as Harry and Dumbledore, have what it takes.
Let's agree to disagree on Severus' motives. And on whether, or if, Harry and Ginny, ultimately, will be smart enough not to let something as trivial as the fate of the world get between them :-)
Me, I'm smirking just a little at the desperate H/Hr crowd, especially those who boo-yahed at the R/Hr sorts. I don't wish them ill, but there's a teeny bit of me that really wants to say "I told you so."
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-17 03:20 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-17 03:13 pm (UTC)The moment he knew he'd be alone, he broke out the Firewhiskey, because Big Slytherin Don't Cry. They just drink themselves to oblivion.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-17 03:09 pm (UTC)i have never been this engrossed in a book before in my life. i was GASPING and laughing and crying. one time i even shouted "NO!" and another "YES!" and dan thought i was crazy!
he doesn't get it.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-17 03:16 pm (UTC)That wasn't "Please, don't kill me." That was, "Please. Save Draco and yourself."
And someone else has pointed out that Snape and Dumbledore stared at each other first. (I need to reread but it's Jonathan's turn.) They're both Leglimenos. There was a whole convesation there.
And I believe Dumbledore discussed this whole scenario with Snape. Besides, he was already dying. I think he was hoping he'd die before this had to happen, which would have taken both Draco and Snape off the hook, but, *shrug.*
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-17 03:37 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-17 08:08 pm (UTC)i liked how much more in depth we got to look at malfoy. talk about an over bearing father!
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-17 08:12 pm (UTC)The hatred was for Voldemort; the revulsion was for what he had to do.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-17 08:19 pm (UTC)i dont know what dumbledore knows to know that snape is innocent. especially since voldemort also thinks snape is on his side.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-17 08:39 pm (UTC)Snape's been working for Dumbledore for at least seventeen years, and was his Headmaster for seven years before that. Dumbledore saved him from Azkaban.
He worked with Voldemort for a couple of years (from leaving Hogwarts until James and Lily were killed) and then has been spying on him for two more. Which one would know him better?
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-17 11:44 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-20 06:51 pm (UTC)I think Snape feels a kind of familial(sp?) loyalty to the Malfoys. I don't think he would have taken an Unbreakable Vow for just any random Death Eater kid.
Snape knew about Draco's assignment possibly before Draco himself did, and I'm sure he was expecting Narcissa to come to him for help. I don't think any part of that conversation was any less carefully calculated than his sweeping entrance to class at the beginning of any given term and the speech on brewing fame, mixing glory, and putting stoppers in death. And if everything was carefully scripted (surely he would know Narcissa enough by now to predict her responses in a case like this), he may well have had the opportunity to discuss matters with Dumbledore first.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-09 08:31 pm (UTC)As my husband pointed out, Snape could have SO hit Harry with Avada Kedavra, or even Petrificus Totalus, so Voldemort could've done the Avada Kedavra himself. Instead, he spent valuable time saying a sneering version of "You're going to need to work on your non-verbal curses, so that the Death Eaters can't block them as easily." He's still Harry's DADA teacher.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-09 08:49 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-18 03:30 pm (UTC)I don't know...Dumbledore said the only (or maybe the strongest) power that kept Harry from even being tempted by Voldemort's strength and power was his purity in heart, his ability to love. Does Snape have that? I doubt it: no friends, hated and ridiculed by his classmates, practically swimming in the Dark Arts, not to mention his pure and unadulturated hatred for Harry. On the other hand, perhaps Snape's is loyal to Dumbledore (if that's the case) precicely because of Dumbledore's love (trust?) for Snape.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-18 03:49 pm (UTC)I got the impression that Snape and Lucius were friends, for that matter. And would Snape have called himself what he did if he didn't harbor positive feelings towards his mother?
Having the ability to love isn't enough. Purity of heart (which seems to be defined as having no desire for power)is also important - and Snape does fail there.
Does Snape love Dumbledore? I don't know. Loyalty and love are different things, after all.
If he did - it makes what he *had* to do even more difficult.
And Dumbledore trusts too easily - witness our favorite sociopath. There are worse flaws, but few as dangerous.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-20 06:54 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-18 07:38 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-09 08:26 pm (UTC)That wasn't "Please, don't kill me." That was, "Please. Save Draco and yourself."
While Snape is hitting the Firewhiskey, he can pass it to Draco and smoothly sneer that Draco isn't a killer, never was, and his thinly-disguised taunting can turn into "So, c'mon away from the Dark Lord, we NEED you, Draco." Not all in one go, of course, but if they can get a Malfoy away from Dark Arts, they're damn good!
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-18 03:46 pm (UTC)I find it difficult, nay, impossible, to believe that Dumbeldore's absolute faith in Snape is that misguided. Dumbledore in other cases admits his own fallability. But in his beliefs about Snape, he remains rock solid, never accepting that he could be misjudging Snapes true character.
P.S. I'd love to see your sorting hat application, but I can't find it. Do you have a link?
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-18 03:55 pm (UTC)I'm amused at the deep split.
What I want to do is set up a spreadsheet and see which house voted which way the most.
Dumbledore is fallible, we know that. We love that, those of us who don't demand perfection in our heroes and think that lack of perfection=really evil.
But he's probably a better Leglimenos than Voldemort because, unlike Voldemort, he has empathy, too.
Legimens v. Occulmens
Date: 2005-07-21 06:34 pm (UTC)Yes, it's fascinating. I absolutely want to trust Snape. Motcha hates him wholeheartedly. You can't blame him. Snape is a sadist who is capable of performing unforgivable curses. That makes him a genuine dark wizard. But for some reason, he fights on the good side.
Interesting theory and very possible. One thing this book seemed to imply to me was that being an accomplished occulmens isn't necessarily a good thing to be, which is may be part of why Harry failed. To do it, you have to close your mind. . .
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-21 07:16 pm (UTC)Snape is a nasty person who does enjoy making his student uncomfortable, and he was equally nasty with Sirius. Oddly enough, he was NEVER that nasty to Lupin even when he had Lupin under his power in PoA.
This is the only Unforgivable we've seen him perform, and I'm convinced he was doing it under Dumbledore's orders (and remember, it was kill a dying man or die himself - or force a sixteen year old boy to kill. In all cases, Dumbledore was dead. And since I can't see Dumbledore pleading for his life, the only thing he could be pleading for would be his death.)
Yes, about that. Harry, unlike Draco (this is according to JK Rowling) cannot close off his emotions. Maybe it's because he's too damaged - for years, the only emotion he seemed to have was anger, or maybe Draco's damaged in a different way.
Snape's also a poor teacher. Maybe a different Occlumenos could have done a better job.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-22 03:15 am (UTC)It isn't the only time we've seen Snape perform an Unforgivable Curse. When Harry broke into his mind in their occulmency lessons, one of the memories was of Snape as a teenager, lying in bed, killing flies with the death curse.
Bellatrix told us that to perform an unforgivable curse correctly, the wizard has to enjoy the pain. Snape can do it. Snape is a sadist.
In the very first chapter in which Dumbledore is talking to MacGonagall, he tells her that Voldemort has powers which he does not. MacGonagall responds that that's only because there are some things no decent wizard would do.
I think Snape is an out-and-out dark wizard, but for some reason, he fights on the good side. Dumbledore needed the powers of a dark wizard even more than he needs a thief like Mundungus.
I wonder if there are magical consequences for a dark wizard if he says "Voldemort," but none for a white wizard. Even Hagrid can say it, though he fears doing it. But as Harry noticed in the last book, Snape always says, "the dark lord."
Oh, one more thing
Date: 2005-07-22 03:35 am (UTC)Motcha, who really hates Snape, came up with the theory that Dumbledore has been under an Imperius Curse all this time. I don't buy it, but in supporting it, Motcha pointed out that Dumbledore always says the same thing about Snape: "I trust Severus Snape." Never once does he say, "Snape is good." Snape is trustworthy. Snape is on the right side. But Snape is not good.
I think you're absolutely right about the mental conversation between Dumbledore and Snape. I have so much fun on your HP threads!
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-18 10:39 pm (UTC)I think you're right; there's so much that's going to be explained in Book 7 that will make it all make sense. JKR just has to do things to keep the tension in the books themselves because that's simply *good storytelling*.
The book was much better than OotP. It was tighter, it was impossible to put down and there were no boring parts. And it had me laughing and had me crying. Oh, goodness. Madam Bones! That hit me hard and fast, you know?
*nodnodnod* Yes, yes, yes. To everything you say here.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-20 07:10 pm (UTC)I agree with you 100% about Snape. I wrote pretty much the same thing on my journal. I also wrote that now, the real drama of the story isn't whether or not Harry will defeat Voldemort, but how it will be when Harry confronts Snape.
You don't like Tonks and Lupin? I love it! I thought it was so well done, a happy moment amidst the saddest part of the book.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-20 08:06 pm (UTC)It's just not how I view Lupin.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-21 06:11 pm (UTC)Actually, I thought Lupin was in this book quite a bit. I was so disappointed to see nothing of him in GoF. Re-read Xmas at the Weasleys. There's a great little bit about Molly's glare at him.
I also re-read the chase scene with Snape. Wow! What sub-text! My interpretations are on my journal.
Do you think RAB is Amelia Bones? I think that's JKR's trick. I've heard better theories, and today, I've expanded on them a bit, but no postings yet.
Motcha said he sent you an email. Did you get it?
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-21 07:08 pm (UTC)I think RAB is Regulus Black. There's no indication that Amelia isn't Madam Bones' first name. He has a canonical change of heart, plus the locket may have been already found in Grimmauld Place in OotP - in that cabinet they were cleaning out.
Which means it may be in Kreacher's little nest *or* Mundungus sold it.
I looked through my inbox and found Mordechai's email.
You'll have better luck sending things to my gmail account these days. mamadeb1963@gmail.com
RAB
Date: 2005-07-22 02:16 am (UTC)Regulus Black seems to be a very logical conclusion, a little too obvious for JKR. Dumbledore said that a single wizard couldn't have taken the Horcrux alone. That being the case, the important question isn't "Who is RAB?" but "Who accompanied RAB?" I am thinking it was Kreacher or Borgin or both.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-21 12:06 am (UTC)