Synergy and a size rant

[mamadeb]

I just saw this week's House (thank you, kassrachel).

I'll get into my general reactions to it later under a cut-tag, but for now, and I don't think this is a spoiler, suffice it to say that the episode was about being fat and what it means to women and girls.

And then I read in ginamariewade's journal about the root cause of Terri Schiavo's death - that she became bulimic to lose weight because she was a little plump, and this reduced her potassium levels and caused her heart attack. (I refuse to get into the rightness or wrongness of her parents or her husband anymore. It's all moot.)

I'm fat. I'm 200 lbs, more or less (I don't weigh myself, so I don't know precisely) and I'm 5'1".


I kept a food diary for a few weeks, so I know pretty much what I eat, and what I eat is pretty healthy. I avoid sugar, I don't eat a lot of fat, we eat vegetables and whole grains, and I try to make at least one non-meat meal a week for dinner. I walk a lot because I don't own a car, and I go to martial arts three times a week - three hours of fairly intense aerobics. I limit my addiction to pistachios to Shabbat.

In other words, I don't shovel in food - unless I'm very hungry, I usually leave food over - and I'm not lazy. I'm also not fond of salad, but that's something else. :) My weight is therefore not a moral failing. It's just what I weigh. I think it means I have a very efficient metabolism that processes the food I eat too well, so it produces more usable energy than I need. If I'm ever in a famine (God forbid), this would serve me well, and I'd have to go on a famine footing to change that. I've done that. I've spent my days hungry, filling up on water and measuring everything and not sleeping well at night. And, honestly, if my blood sugar goes too low, I am not a pretty sight. I can feel myself getting irritable and almost irrational.

I hate that size has become a moral judgement. That gaining or losing a few pounds can change the way the world sees you or you see yourself. I'm fortunate - the one person whose opinion matters to me loves *me* - not because I'm fat, although that would not be any worse than being loved for my green eyes or my long hair, or despite the fact that I'm fat - but just for whatever reasons he has. Doesn't mean that I didn't look at myself at the house of mirrors that is my local mikveh and think that I am a fat blob (or that I didn't marvel when he hugged me when I got home and said, "You're so thin!"). Doesn't mean that there aren't times I'd love to be able to have more choice in what I wear, or to find bras that fit (44B. Not the most common bra size.) But I'm glad I have other ways of judging my selfworth - as do all of us here, whatever our energy levels or health or size.

Now, as for House:


Chase makes a rather adorable and convincing bastard, doesn't he? No wonder House (I knew he was bi!) wants to grab his rear. And I'm falling for Foreman. He's smart and he's kind. That's a killer combination.

(And yeah, they are *so* together. :))

I got and didn't get the B-plot. She's positive about her size. She has a husband who adores her and she has other lovers as well. But she'd rather drag around a thirty pound tumor than have a scar or be a little less curvy? I mean, my husband reassures me I'm still "squishy", but that's just not important for this. (And, you know - I wonder now. She knows her husband loves her, so why does she cheat on him? It could simply be wandering feet, but then she wouldn't be so concerned about changing her appearance. I think she's worked hard in the face of this culture of ours to prove she's attractive *as she is*,and part of that proof is the lovers she's taken. She likes having them on their own merits, though, so even though she's proved her point, she doesn't want to lose them. I don't know. I'm monogamous and happy to be that way, so I don't understand anyway.)

The little girl - oh, my goodness. I was her. I was the fat girl who had no friends, who spent her time reading or doodling. I don't have a handy tumor that would cure my weight problems, though, so I had to find science fiction fandom to change my social life.

Comments

[kassrachel.livejournal.com]

I suspect a lot of us identified with that little girl, to one extent or another. It made the episode a little bit complicated, at least for me; on the one hand I related to where that kid was coming from, and admired her mother for standing up for her daughter's beauty; OTOH, though I felt the creators of the show were trying to offer a fat-positive (or at least value-neutral) perspective on size, I'm not sure they succeeded, and that annoyed me.

Yeah, Chase did an excellent job of being a schmuck in this one. I found it fairly believable, and it pissed me off. Foreman, though...! I adored Foreman this week.

And House quipping that he's going to grab Cameron's butt...and Chase's, too! Oh, I loved that so much I had to watch it several times. Also Wilson's retort about House's many talents. ::grin:: They're so cute, those two...

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

At least they tried to be fat-positive, and they deserve points for that.

Thing about Chase is that he knows he's pretty. And he does think "fat" is a moral issue. Which is a shame.

[kid-lit-fan.livejournal.com]

Being even remotely fat-positive on TV is actually very brave, these days.

I posted not long ago that I weigh about 200 lbs, and how my mom believes that "200 lbs" is synonymous with "Too big to be in public" (as in "I saw this HUGE woman, she must've been 200 pounds, she could barely walk down the aisle.) She doesn't think I'm too big to be in public, because there's "no way" I'm 200 lbs.
Sigh.

My daughter goes back and forth between growth-spurt eating and "I shouldn't eat much, I don't want to get fat." She drank a soda (a rare thing in our house. I decided to enjoy what I eat, so sodas, french fries and potato chips don't pass my lips), looked at the calorie count, and was running back and forth "so I don't get fat from 140 calories." Who taught her this? She's SEVEN!

I know that I'm healthier than a lot of slim people I know. I don't smoke, I get more than 5 servings of fruit and veggies a day, my meat is lean, my processed foods are minimal. But no-one will believe me because I'm carrying "extra" weight.

[magid.livejournal.com]

Another person on my f'list just posted a link to a Marie Claire article (http://magazines.ivillage.com/marieclaire/mind/health/articles/0,,434735_620890-1,00.html) about self-image and body-image. They used the same photo of a size 14 woman with different texts, to see what reactions people would have to the two ads. Interesting stuff.

[fernwithy.livejournal.com]

Oh, what an interesting experiment! I'm a bit larger than size 14, but the article still couldn't have come at a more opportune moment. (I'm in one of my periodic "If I don't lose weight, I'm going on a starvation diet" phases, which never last, but are very unpleasant.)

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

That was fascinating.

And I do believe it. Attitude plays a big role in how people treat you - not everything, mind you, but it's a factor. If someone believes she's beautiful, no matter what, people are going to react to that.

(Of course, the model in that photo was beautiful. And, so far as I could judge, sexy.)

[kid-lit-fan.livejournal.com]

The article was great, BUT

Below it were other Marie Claire articles to which you could link.

Anatomy of a Pigout*
Slim Your Body in 2 Weeks
Who Will Get Fat First? **
Why You Should Learn Tantric Sex
Lean Legs in 7 Days

* Thanksgiving makes you fat.
** Technically, this one IS about healthy eating, but the emphasis is on fat. However, it's refreshing that one woman, size 18, isn't considered fat yet (and, as a healthy, moderate eater, won't get fat.).


4 out of five about how it's better to be thin.

[lexin.livejournal.com]

I hate that size has become a moral judgement.

Or any kind of judgement. But it has - I was very fat (over 300lbs) and I lost around 80lbs. The way people treat me has completely altered - just completely - and I'm not thin by any manner of means now.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

I wonder if it's better or worse in the UK than it is in the US. Statistically, USans are on the heavy side, but that doesn't stop us from worshiping the thinnest of women.

[kid-lit-fan.livejournal.com]

From what I've heard from ex-pat American friends living in London, the pictures you see in magazines and on billboards contain a MUCH larger range of body shapes. Maybe not 300 lb people, but a lot more women over 150. With the exception of the occasional Queen Latifah (who almost always has some comment like "plus-sized but still sexy", as if that's an anomaly, the women worshipped as sexy are thin, sometimes in a way that looks unhealthy to me.

[batdina.livejournal.com]

speaking as someone who spent most of her teenage years, as well as most of her twenties, starving herself, I'll second your rant and then square it. Bodies are not moral judgments, they're just bodies.

I have a feeling I'm going to have to succomb to House at some point. I don't have time to watch the television I want to watch now. Feh.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

Medically, the show is awful, but the acting and the characters are wonderful - and the lead is Hugh Laurie. :)

eating disorders

[kressel.livejournal.com]

So she was bulimic also? What a tragedy all around! And one of the tragedies of the world in general is all this emphasis on weight. The magazine "Mishpacha," which caters to the Ultra-Orthodox/Chareidi world, has been running a three-week-long series on the problem of anorexia and bulimia in the community. And I would have thought that having less media around to pressure girls into some beauty ideal would have reduced the problem. Well, it ain't necessarily so, especially when it comes to shidduchim. But one good thing about the series was its emphasis on methods of therapy and healing. When I was a teenager in the secular world, we heard about anorexia, too, but I think there was some glorification of it, as if to tell young women, "Dare ya!"

I need to end off on a happy note. Well, I'm grateful to be at lj, and especially grateful to aishet_shertz. It's so wonderful to find a support group! See you around, G-d willing!

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

The whole thing was tragic, from start to finish.

I've heard that eating disorders were a problem in the Chareidi world. Which proves that it's not *just* media, or even just being around the opposite sex that can cause them, since these girls are sheltered from one (although you know they find a way to get the fashion magazines if they can) and aren't around the other.

I suspect the pressure to find a good shidduch as soon as possible is a primary cause.

(And there are now "pro-ana" websites and even LJ communities - places that anorectic and blumic girls (and boys) go for support in this disorder. It's scary sad.)

And I'm happy to see you. :)

[damned-colonial.livejournal.com]

Please excuse my ignorance: what is a shidduch?

(Interesting conversation... I just want to keep up with all of it!)

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

A blind date, usually arranged by a professional or a family friend, with both parties seeking to get married. It's one way unmarried men and women in the Chareidi(some say "Ultra-Orthodox") community meet each other. If they do not hit it off in a small number of dates, they go on to someone else. If they do, they can be married in a matter of months, sometimes weeks.

[damned-colonial.livejournal.com]

Ah, right! Thanks.

[pocketnaomi.livejournal.com]

One of the things I found really disturbing about the whole Schiavo thing was that her brother, in waxing sentimental about the dying sister he's been up to his ears in the battle to keep on a feeding tube, *still* said (and thought he was praising her sincerely), "She used to be a little plump, yeah, but once she lost all that weight she was a really beautiful girl." Hasn't he learned *anything* from what his sister did to herself in the cause of losing that weight?

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

One of the strangest moments I've seen (not on this level, thank goodness) was on an early Survivor season. After being in, I think, Australia, for thirty days or so, the remaining contestants were very, very hungry. And they were given scales. The stupid poem said that "They'd never looked better," presumably because they were much, much thinner.

They looked, frankly, awful. Starvation looks good on no one.

[pocketnaomi.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I spent one *awful* summer in a manic phase that lasted for five months. It kept me constantly buzzing over with energy; it also made me completely unable to eat pretty much anything. I was constantly nauseated, but more than that, I just always felt when presented with food the way you'd feel if offered a plate on which was served to you an old shoe. I lived pretty much on lemonade till some doctors helped me get the problem under control in September, and by that time I was 5'5" and 102 pounds. I have seldom looked worse. I've never particularly been of the anorexic mentality, but if there were any trance of it in me, that experience knocked it *right* out.

People whose bodies are healthiest skinny look good skinny. People whose bodies are healthiest fat look best fat. The vast majority of us look best in between, which also happens to be where we're healthy. I don't think it's coincidence that the people I know who are *really* pretty when they're skinny are also the ones who don't diet to get that way; in fact, they can't gain weight when they try.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

That's so true. I remember this woman in college that I didn't know all that well, but at one point I started thinking she looked sick. Then I realized she'd lost weight. I thought maybe she'd lost too much weight, but when I objectively looked at her, it's not like she was emaciated. I mean, to clarify, I'm a particularly skinny person and compared to me she was probably larger. But she still just looked wrong and I realized it was just--hey! Maybe we're really not all supposed to have the same bodies.

I was recently watching that new Penn & Teller show and they were talking about exercise programs that are rip-offs and at first I was worried they were going to sort of go to the opposite extreme where there was no point to getting into shape ever because you were doomed to whatever you were. But no, they said of course it's great to get exercise and eat in a healthy way. You feel better and have more energy. But these ads always take people with a specific body type and show them using a machine they've probably never used, and promise that machine is going to give you that body.

[pocketnaomi.livejournal.com]

My stepmother was a very plump, very pretty woman for most of the time I knew her. She tried to lose weight, somewhat but not overwhelmingly successfully, and it didn't make a lot of difference one way or the other to how pretty she was. Then she lost a great deal of weight -- initially as a result of a digestive disorder, but kept it off on purpose because she felt better that way. Okay, I can understand why (especially since she's very tall, and somewhat large-boned, so she's carrying a lot around anyway) she feels better with less weight to haul around, but she now looks... pinched. Much older than she did just a few years ago, and tight-faced and sticklike. She's still fairly pretty because she'd be pretty no matter what, but not like she was.

[lexin.livejournal.com]

Reminds me of the time I went to the Holocaust exhibition at the Imperial War Museum in London - at the end there was a section on Japanese camps, and there was a photo of a woman holding a bowl of rice.

A woman stood next to me said something like, "She's looking so sexy!" at which point I turned to her and said something along the lines of, "The bowl she's holding is her day's rice ration, and the point of the photo is that she's in an internment camp and is being starved to death. If you think that's sexy, then I'm sorry for you."

[kid-lit-fan.livejournal.com]

re: Terri Schiavo. The obituary on CNN mentioned that before she went to college and met her husband, she "slimmed down." How very sad that this is considered something worth mentioning in an obituary, especially considering that "slimming down" eventually killed her.

[darthfox.livejournal.com]

well -- she became bulimic because she was a little not-right in the head. it's a disorder, just like anorexia, and bulimics don't stop inducing vomiting when they get to their target weight.

but, yes.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

Yes, of course. She needed to be treated for the eating disorder, but she probably hid it.

And judging from a quote from her brother, most of them thought that whatever she'd been doing, it was good because she'd slimmed down.

[darthfox.livejournal.com]

yeah - i read that in the comment above mine and seethed for several minutes. i'm sorry for the family's distress, but RAR, you know?

and incidentally, my feelings about the rightness and wrongness of the parents and the husband have nothing to do with what each party wanted for that poor woman, and everything to do with whose job it was to make those calls. next of kin. i believe the parents petitioned at one point to have the husband removed as her guardian, but that having failed, i'm not sure why they were still in it. Next Of Kin. i've just been thinking lately of what would happen if, god forbid, something happened to me and my parents couldn't agree on what was to be done. [makes mental note to get married or designate brother as tie-breaker before this happens]

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

Designate your brother as having medical power of attorney if you can trust him to do what you want, I'd say.

And make sure you're as specific as possible as to your wishes.

Not that getting married is a bad thing, if you can do it.

[stella-by-moor.livejournal.com]

I hate that size has become a moral judgement.

It shouldn't be a moral judgement, not just because being overweight is often beyond a person's control, but because being very thin is often a matter of genetics as well.

But the issue of weight is complicated by the fact that there are serious health consequences to being obese and, to a lesser extent, to the behaviors that lead people to become overweight. The flipside to that are the people with eating disorders who starve themselves to skeletal thinness. So we need to encourage people to lose weight while simultaneously reassuring people that it's okay if you're not thin. *boggles*

[azurelunatic]

I think the message needs to be, "Eat and exercise healthily," really. Meals balanced right for your body, on a timing right for your body and schedule (if I were to follow that insane suggestion that you shouldn't eat after 7:00 pm, I'd have problems, because I tend to go to bed in the wee hours of the morning, rather than at 9:00 pm as that suggestion seems to think everyone does or should), and do stuff to acquire strength, flexibility, and stamina.

Sitting at a desk all day and driving to and from work and sitting on the couch at home is not a healthy exercise plan. Neither is not eating enough and spending five hours a day in the gym.

I've heard assorted things (nothing as concrete as a specific study I could point at, but just things) saying that extra weight with good cardiorespiratory health was in fact more healthy a physical situation to be in than at or under weight with poor cardiorespiratory health.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

I've heard the same thing, and it makes sense. The most important thing is to *move*, in whatever way works best for you - walking, bellydancing, Dance Dance Revolution - whatever.

[azurelunatic]

Even hyperactively jittering in the computer chair and making a billion trips to the kitchen for more carrots is better than nothing.

[stella-by-moor.livejournal.com]

That sounds like a fabulous way to look at things. Personally, I've never heard the suggestion that you shouldn't eat after a certain time, just no exercise and no caffeine within two hours of bedtime since those things tend to interfere with falling asleep.

[azurelunatic]

I can't have any caffiene within four hours of sleep, because I'm sensitive to it because I don't use it much. And exercise -- on the one hand, if I do just enough, I'm hyper and jazzed and ready for more, but if I go and do a thorough workout, I want to crash out immediately.

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

So we need to encourage people to lose weight while simultaneously reassuring people that it's okay if you're not thin.

How do we do so? Can we do so? (My personal experience, and much of what I've seen around me in this society, says we can't.)

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

Which is why I think we need to take the emphasis off weight and on to physical fitness in general. If the other numbers are good, then the scale is less relevent.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Besides which, people seem to think that the number means things that it doesn't. For instance, a ballet teacher of mine often coaches kids from SAB who have been told to lose weight (feel free to shudder at that thought here) and she just coaches them to improve their alignment. They go back the next year and get praised for losing weight when they did no such thing (thank goodness). How you carry yourself makes a HUGE difference in how you look. The way a lot of people work out anyway sort of encourages bulkiness. The most important thing is really how you carry your weight--someone can be quite heavy by society's standards and still be very graceful and light on their feet; a skinny person can be the opposite.

[stella-by-moor.livejournal.com]

That was my point: I was trying to point out the problem of trying to encourage people to maintain a healthy weight while simultaneously addressing the problem of eating disorders.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

We have to encourage people to *move* and eat healthier without it being tied to weight at all, because otherwise, if they don't lose weight, they'll be discouraged. My husband, before he sprained his ankle, was going two-three times a week to a local gym. He hasn't lost much weight, but he's able to get his heart rate higher now, and his blood pressure is lower. And that's enough to make me happy he's doing it - and he misses it right now.

I weigh more or less what I did when that picture in my icon was taken, but my shape is different and I have more muscle mass, and that was my goal.

[stella-by-moor.livejournal.com]

You're absolutely right. Exercise and a healthy diet are key for everyone, no matter what size they are. I think weight becomes the focus because it's the easiest indicator for most people to measure: a growing waistline is simpler to detect than an increase in blood pressure or cholesterol levels.

[magid.livejournal.com]

It's not just a growing waistline is easier, but pounds are easier than inches. I've heard women in the locker room at the gym bemoaning not losing weight while acknowledging that they've lost inches. But the one metric, the scale, has become the grail, and all the other numbers (blood pressure, circumference, cholesterol, resting heart rate, flexibility, strength, etc etc) aren't valued. Or not nearly as much.

Whew!

[kressel.livejournal.com]

What a hot-button issue! This is the longest thread I've seen in my first five days on lj.

[linda3m.livejournal.com]

I weigh over 300 lbs. Frankly, I wouldn't care about this if it weren't for the fact that recently it has started to affect my mobility. Otherwise, I'm happy, well-adjusted and satisfied with my life and my relationships. Earlier this week I decided to join Curves in an effort to regain some of my lost stamina and flexibility. During the intake, the club owner asked me about depression. I laughed! I've never been a depressive person and I refuse to dwell on negatives. I'm a pretty cheery sort. Or I was until she leaned forward and said to me in all seriousness, "Come on now, you can't tell me you're not depressed." I blew up! I told her that was utter Dr-Phil-Bull****! I also told her that instead of joining for a year I would now only sign up for one month and that my continued membership was contingent on her not annoying me.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

My goodness.

Maybe find a different Curves?