(no subject)

[mamadeb]

Okay. I'm confused. How come the fact that I can't keep my kitchen clean means I shouldn't own a house, but I should adopt a child?

Does this make any sense at all?

Comments

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

'splain?

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

It's my mother-in-law. She has decided that, while we should indeed own our own home, it should be an apartment - a co-op or that rare beast, the condo - instead of a house. This is because I am a poor housekeeper. Which is true. This therefore proveswe are not responsible enough for home-ownership. Also, if we own a house, Jonathan will have to give up many of his religious classes (none of which cost us anything) because he'll have to spend his evenings taking care of the house. Which is odd because most of the men he learns with own houses.

However, she also spent much of the last phone call telling me how lovely her cousin's adopted daughter is, and how smart and active and cute and well-adjusted and, unspoken, was "You should adopt a child soon, too. See how wonderful it is?"

So, apparently, I'm okay to take responsibility for a *child* but not for a house.

[norabombay.livejournal.com]

Ah. Which is nutty.

I suppose a child would put a temorary crimp in religious classes much more than a house would...

Of course you can eventually take the theoretical child to class and you can't take the house.

I don't know what to say, but I think she will turn out to be happy if you buy a house or get a child.

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

Certainly happier than if they get a house or buy a child ;)

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

Pfui. If anybody is entitled to decide whether you are responsible enough to own a house, it's you; the only people who might have a say with regard to adopting children are the folks who screen prospective parents.

'Cause, you see, if it were me, I would have already said "thank you for your opinion" and be working on the blistering response for when the next set of worthless dumping came my way. But I'm not known for being nice.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

I just don't understand humans. I just *don't*. Because I just spent a half hour trying to explain this to my own mother, and she doesn't see the logical discontinuity at all. (Although she also thinks I should own a house.)

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

I agree. You should own a house. And you should adopt a child. If you feel up to it.

I see the logical discontinuity. It's a crock. The hardest part for me, in your shoes, would be finding the polite way to convey that message.

Being a poor housekeeper is not a good enough reason to subject yourself to the whims and iron grip of a condo or coop board, rather than being able to handle your house as suits you. Don't buy into it, and don't let your MiL get you off track.

[cellio]

*boggle* Ok, sometimes people are just weird.

If it's important to you, you'll make it work -- whether "it" is a spotless kitchen, a kid, a home of your own, or whatever. People undervalue the concept of "good enough" sometimes.

[norabombay.livejournal.com]

Personally, I think you should definately buy a house, because it's a great investment, and you can turn the space into your own.

And I think that you should adopt a child if you want to adopt a child.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

I do want to adopt a child. But I don't understand how one can be too irresponsible for a house and yet responsible enough to raise a child.

[norabombay.livejournal.com]

All I can guess is that childraising and house cleaning are different skill sets? It is an odd idea.

I can see many cases where one's lifestyle precludes owning a house, but parenting works.

But, uh, yeah, somebody's offering some bad advice.

On the other hand, Cat and I are not what you would call tidy, cleaning people, and the condo is still standing...

[azurelunatic]

IIRC, condos still have group decisions on building maintainence and the like? Homeowners have to do their own thing there, generally.

But kid-parents also have to periodically maintain the kid. Who reminds them?

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

You can see why I'm confused here.

[azurelunatic]

Perhaps she's under the impression that children who are of age to be adopted are also self-maintaining, or will provide their own reminders about maintainence? But that does not include doctor checkups and dental checkups, which are analogous to the checking that termites etc. have not overwhelmed the foundations.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

No, she understands we want a baby. And she knows kids better than that - she raised three of her own (and one was adopted, although my sister-in-law was twelve at the time, and the daughter of her husband.)

[mecurtin.livejournal.com]

Take it from me, they are definitely *way* different skill sets. I'm a poor housekeeper, but I'm really proud of my work as a Mom. So maybe your M-i-L is seeing something true about you, that you would do much better taking care of an ever-changing human being than of a boring ol' house.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

Skill sets.

SEe, that's a term I understand. And, yeah. Housekeeping is the most boring thing *ever*. But a kid could be fun. Especially if I have to be on the alert to keep them from knocking down the piles of piles of stuff...

[commodorified.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. Well, because responsibility levels aren't necessarily transitive?

Getting better at housekeeping and getting more house to keep is a lot of work that won't necessarily improve your overall quality of life from what it'd be if you went for a condo and minimal effort wheras if you want to do it, putting the energy into a kid will.

I mean, if you want the house, yeah, get the house, but I do sort of take her point. I can totally see you neglecting the kitchen, and I can't envision you ever in a million years neglecting the kid.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

That sort of makes sense. My kitchen is neglected to a degree - nothing rotting on the counters or anything, and I use clean food prep items, but it's cluttered. I'm bad at decluttter and tidy.

A house will give us...more room to accumulate stuff. This is probably a bad thing, except we've never let lack of room stop us, and we'd get more wallspace for bookcases, which is the thing we most desperately need. Wallspace. For bookcases. And also a place for a child and its stuff. And even people to come and sing and stay with us. And my mom will be happy.

But it wouldn't be a condo because condos don't exist. It would be a co-op. Which means we would live in the apartment, but we don't own it. We own shares in the building that equal the apartment in which we would live. Or something. It's a New York thing. And everything takes board approval. Which is usually given, but you do have to ask.

[ataniell93.livejournal.com]

I'm with commodorified about what it probably meant.

And I've been to New York and I've seen some pretty big apartments. I would love to live in the place lindensphinx and her family live in. Then again, I'm completely allergic to suburbs and the idea of owning a house and you're not.

I know what a co-op is (we have similar things in SF) but I'd rather live in one than a house.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

I don't want to move to the suburbs. I love living in Brooklyn - and with a nondriving husband, it makes life a lot easier. And we love our synagogue.

But there are houses here.

[ataniell93.livejournal.com]

Her kitchen has got to be better than most people's, though; it's kashered and stays that way. :D

littlewings04 assures me that even my kitchen can be set to rights, bless her optimistic soul.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

Oh, that's easy to do. I just rarely cook dairy meals. :)

[otherdeb.livejournal.com]

Housekeeping and kidkeeping are different skill sets for sure. You and I know one of the poorest housekeepers in humanity, and her kid -- who is now an adult pretty much -- is just fine.

I think your M-I-L probably means well, but is just a bit off-base here in her communication skills.

After all, I have seen kids with parents who are great at housekeeping (I have this one cousin and his wife who have a home that is so spotless as to be almost antiseptic; in his mother's home, you could practically eat off the floor), and their kids are totally neurotic, compulsive, and have problems I wouldn't want any kid to have.

[beckyfeld.livejournal.com]

You've seen my house... You've seen my kid... 'Nuff said. :-)

[estherchaya.livejournal.com]

heh heh. If I hadn't met your kid and seen your house, I could have read that the absolute wrong way! Fortunately, your kid is a dear. And, hey! Your living room is CLEAN right now!

[beckyfeld.livejournal.com]

I figured it was clear from context, but you may be right. Yes, the living room is clean now (thanks, Harold!!!!), and we're trying really hard to keep it that way... but whether or not my house is clean should have no bearing on my ability to raise my child. Remember, "Merciless Discipline".

[iroshi.livejournal.com]

Oooh I like that phrase. Can I steal it?? Excellent summation. Of course, then you *still* have to deal with explaining the difference between discipline and punishment, the necessity for both, but the difference in levels of each... But it's still a great phrase! :D

[beckyfeld.livejournal.com]

Sure. Actually it was Harold who coined the phrase, but you're welcome to it.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

This is true. And I was thinking about that. Of course, I'd be lucky to get a kid as great as Aaron.

[gryphons-lair.livejournal.com]

Not really anything new to add, as I agree with pretty much everything everybody's said.

Except that I am a lousy housekeeper, and my kitchen is a perpetual minor disaster, yet I have a house. More house than I need, really, but I fell in love with it. And it doesn't show any signs of falling down because I don't keep a spotless kitchen.

Myself, I'd think a messy kitchen would count more against you re: adopting a kid than re: buying a house. I can see the Social Worker doing the review frowning and muttering about germs.... except that it sounds like your kitchen is clean-but-cluttered, which isn't the same thing at all.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

That's the thing. 30 minutes work will take care of the mountain of plastic bags and clear off the counters. Another 15 will wash the surfaces. And maybe 10 to get the stuff out of the fridge. It's that I'm too lazy to do that.

The rest of it is clutter. And that clutter is 90% books. We have at least 1.5 Bryants. And God alone knows how many comic books.