Anger

[mamadeb]

My landlady seems to believe that she can toss us out because I keep a messy apartment.

She thinks I should even hire a cleaning lady. Well, so do I, but if *she* insists, then shouldn't *she* pay for it?

She came into my apartment today because her bathroom ceiling was leaking. As our sink and toilet have been having problems, I do concur that it's probably the pipes, and we'll call a roto-rooter analog for an appointment.

But she was appalled.

I pay my rent on time. I'm quiet. I just don't handle cleaning.

And I want to *scream* at her. She just harangued me for a half an hour, and she wouldn't have stopped if I hadn't gotten almost *rude*.

She's not my mother.

The house will be done for Pesach because it is *always* done for Pesach.

Comments

[darthfox.livejournal.com]

surely there's a section in the lease covering what is and what is not her (damn) business, innit?

[hugs for you]

[rosehiptea.livejournal.com]

I almost got kicked out of an apartment over cleaning. They gave me notice to clean it up, because it was in violation of the lease.

I didn't really think it was any of their business either, but I was afraid to get anything fixed after that. (I don't mean I didn't clean it up; I did, and I tried to keep it cleaner, and eventually hired people. And I did get things fixed on occasion and never got warned again.)

This is bringing back memories: being in a group of religious women and saying I had trouble cleaning, and having my friend tell me later that I couldn't say things like that because they'd lose respect for me. I'm glad you're able to talk about it.

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

Much of the drama currently happening in my LJ is the result of a defective cleaning gene.

May I reccommend FlyLady? Her messages are a bit overtly Christian now and then, but if you ignore the testimonials and just do the routines, it helps a LOT.

[kadymae.livejournal.com]

My landlady seems to believe that she can toss us out because I keep a messy apartment.

It depends. There is such thing as squalor, the health department can cite you for it, and you can lose your apartment over it.

If your apartment is cluttered (papers, books, clothes, etc) it's not until it reaches fire hazard standards that much can be done.

But if you've got ooodles of unwashed dishes and several bags of (rotting food) trash, *then* the health department has leverage.

There's a huge difference between cluttered and unsanitary. (And somehow, I don't think that you live in squalor.)

[cellio]

If it's just clutter, it's none of her damn business. If you're throwing a party for rats and roaches, she has grounds to object. I'm guessing that you're not doing the latter. Really, if it doesn't endanger health or the integrity of the property itself, I doubt she's got grounds. What does the lease say?

If she's just a busy-body, you may have to be rude to her. :-(

[rosehiptea.livejournal.com]

Judging from what happened to me, it's possible to have violated something in the lease without hitting a standard that the health department would become involved with. (Though my apartment was probably worse as far as clutter...)

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

Most leases have a "good, clean, and sanitary" clause. It's very vague, but if she gets a sympathetic judge, she could actually get you evicted for not cleaning enough. She could also choose not to offer you renewal on the lease with much less scrutiny.

It's far from 100%, but I wouldn't take the chance.

[sekhmets-song.livejournal.com]

Egads! That really, really sucks. That's one of the things I hated about apartment living: Someone else had the right to critique the way I live my life. Grrrrrumble.
Is a cleaning service in your budget? If the apartment is fairly small, it shouldn't cost too much to have someone come in every couple of weeks to spiffy the place up. Though, you might not want to look into until it gets it Pesach cleaning: If the service sees it trashed, they will assume that it is always that way a quote you a higher price.
I'm pretty lousy about the cleaning thing myself, as, being self-employed, there never seem to be enough hours in the day to get everything done and cleaning is just not a priority. Alas, it isn't in our budget, but at least I don't have to worry about a busy-body landlady and her idea of how I should be keeping my home!

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Um, wow. That's quite the rude landlady there! I mean, I'm assuming that we're just talking about clutter because you certainly sound like you're sanitary etc. It really seems like she wanted to yell at somebody like a mother yells at a child and you were unfortunately there.

[ataniell93.livejournal.com]

****hugs**** How annoying! I live in the same building as my landlords, too, and my bathroom also leaks. They seem to think they have the right to tell me to keep my bathroom window open all winter so that the 'fresh air' can keep it dry in there, to which I reacted about as well as you're reacting to this--I have asthma and cold air can induce an attack.

[kid-lit-fan.livejournal.com]

Second the recommendation of FlyLady. I have severely fallen off the wagon in the past year, but there's still a basic foundation of routines that keeps the house mostly functional, if a touch cluttery. And I keep on top of dishes and laundry

[rosehiptea.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry if I said anything wrong. I considered deleting my comment but decided not to. Good luck and I hope the landlady gets off your back. And that you have a happy and kosher Pesach.

[gimmeahand.livejournal.com]

Different jurisdictions have very different landlord/tenant laws. In New York, it is VERY difficult for a landlord to evict a tenant who has been paying their rent on time, and is up to date on their rent. Your "messy apartment" would have to constitute a health or fire hazard in order for you to be evicted for it. And, she CANNOT insist that you leave, without taking you to landlord/tenant court and having a judge agree to evict you.

On the other hand, she can find lots of ways to make your life miserable if she wants to. There is very little protection for tenants against harassment by their landlords in New York.

Wait and see if this blows over. If she continues to harass you, and refuses to leave you alone about your housekeeping, the Court Dispute Referral Center at Brooklyn Criminal Court (where I just happen to work) offers free mediation services where you can try to settle your differences in a neutral location with the assistance of a trained impartial mediator, and the presence of armed Court Officers for safety.

I hear stories like this everyday, and your landlady doesn't know how lucky she is to have quiet, rent-paying tenants who are not selling crack out of their apartment! I've provided plenty of Kleenex to weeping landlords who can't get THOSE tenants evicted!

Don't let this get you so upset that you can't enjoy Pesach -- you owe it to your guests!

[pocketnaomi.livejournal.com]

I'mnot sure she actually *can* toss you out for that. You might want to talk to a lawyer in the relevant field.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

It's a standard lease. I don't think it's mentioned.

It's not that she's wrong. It's the way she goes about it.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I know. When a religious woman says her house is a mess, it means there are toys visible.

This is my house. Clean means floor is visible.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

I've tried Flylady. It does work. For weeks at a time before I fall off.

In fact, I started a community, aishet_sheretz because, well, the other Flylady communities don't fit with me.

Actually, one of the things I did last night was set my kitchen timer for fifteen minutes. During that time, I filled two large trash bags and two recycle bags and cleaned out a large part of the kitchen. Because it *is* mostly clutter. And it helped in many more ways than one.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

I need to do that.

Dishes are my husband's department, but if I keep the dishdrainer empty (my version of a shiny sink), he does them, and we take our laundry out.

But it kept my bathroom clean.

[darthfox.livejournal.com]

and if it's not mentioned specifically, then it's not for her to fuss about, right?

i mean. if she had some sort of legitimate complaint that the way you keep your house is going to cost her more when you leave and she has to shine the place up for new renters, then i could see the what, but still not the how. and, in my experience, it's a tiny fraction of the population that actually does damage by cleaning much less often than people would like. in short. GRAR, landlady. GRAR.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

We never have more than a meal or two of unwashed dishes out, and never keep the trash around

It's paper. And not putting things away.

But it is a fire hazard. We're science fiction fans! Before we bought our dining room set, we had more volume of books than furniture! And we've gotten more books. And when I said I thought we should declare a moritorium on buying books for a while, he turned pale and my stomach clenched. So that's not going to happen.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

There are no bugs.

Although - my brother-in-law's an entomologist. He says that we're actually reducing the number of cockroaches anyway - those commercial insecticides that destroy the ability to reproduce in them? Work. Really, really well, and don't produce resistance.

But we don't have bugs. Nor do we smell. We are just very cluttered and messy.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

This is New York City.

I pay my rent on time. She can't evict us.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

Cleaning service is.

After Pesach, I'll call one. I just need a reminder.

Every two weeks should do it.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

She still has kids at home - only one child is married. She just can't stand that she lives under a mess.


Sanitary, yes, in that I don't leave food lying around and anything that touches food is clean.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

She's like that, too.

I happen to do that anyway - but that's because it's our preference. We're glad to have a bathroom with a window at all.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

She wants to inspect my house before Pesach.

Here's the thing. She *is* a pesach-cleaning is spring-cleanig type. It won't suit her.

My kitchen will be Pesahdich. The surfaces that touch food will be kashered (stainless steel sink) or covered or lined. My table will have a clean tablecloth on it. Everything else will be picked up and vacuumed or washed. This is how I was taught to do it.

I don't know if that will be sufficient for her, and that terrifies me.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

She can't. This is NYC. Law is on the tenant's side.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

That's what the security deposit is for.

I'd say that for $1670, she could get a lot done...

[pocketnaomi.livejournal.com]

She can, however, make your life sticky. My sympathies.

[ailsaek.livejournal.com]

When a religious woman says her house is a mess, it means there are toys visible.

Yup. Quite. I've been working hard at bringing up the standards of cleanliness in my place, and I get frustrated at times to know that I am busting my butt just to get to a point where I could apologize for the mess and not be humiliated. I just wish I could get my counsellor to understand that the standard of cleanliness I am aiming for isn't completley ridiculous, it's one that many houses I've been in reach, at least on Shabbos and holidays.

Sympathies with the landlord. BTDT. :P

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

Ah. Okay.

[sweetbriar.livejournal.com]

Your landlady...augh! How intrusive!

I collect clutter. I don't mean to, it just happens that way. It's mostly things that I've decided I can't live without, yet I have no place to put it that it's out of sight. That changed this month when I had all the carpet ripped up and hardwood floors installed. I bought heavy duty garbage bags and a 100 boxes. If I had to think about whether to keep something or if I hadn't used it in ages, it went into the donate pile. If it was broken it went into the trash pile. If I hadn't gotten it fixed in all this time, I wasn't going to. Another pile was for things that were going on eBay or the garage sale.

The flooring is done, the boxes are open and things are put away. I have a few things that have no place to go and I'm going to do one more declutter on them. If I have nowhere to put them and I have no plans to use them, they're going in the trash, the donate pile, or the eBay/garage sale pile, but they are not staying in my house and sitting on a coffee table or in a corner. There is no clutter anywhere now, and if you'd seen my house before, you'd have been shocked. Never again!

[kadymae.livejournal.com]

Have the white gloves on when you go through your kitchen that one last time.

I mean, I know that this kind of kitchen prep involves scrubbing out all the little nooks and crannies with a toothbrush, but it sounds like your Landlady will be looking for the teensiest crumb of bread.

Good luck.

Check for a certain clause in your lease?

[spykeraven.livejournal.com]

First of all, my deepest sympathies. Your landlady has no right to harangue you over such a personal matter, especially if there is a certain clause in your lease that states that as long as you pay your rent on time and do not participate in illegal activities, the landlady is to let you live in peace. I know my leases tend to have that clause. Does yours? Just in case.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

I think seeing my sparkling kitchen (literally - aluminum foil on the counters and stove) will be enough. I hope.

[cellio]

Cluttered and messy does not sound actionable to me. (Of course, I'm not a lawyer or a real-estate professional.)

As for books, we have bookcases lining many walls; this doesn't strike me as a fire hazard per se. I mean, curtains and bed linens will spread a fire just as quickly, and books don't cause fires. Keep 'em away from the stove, the furnace, and any functional fireplaces and she's got no reason to worry.

(Our realtor did not believe us when we listed "space for at least 20 bookcases" in the criteria we specified during house-hunting.)

ditto to Ailsa

[kressel.livejournal.com]

As you know I live right in the heart of balabusta-land, and I've been in a constant state of intimidation for years. (Only in this inyan, not too much in frumkeit.) I've had people comment on the state of my home rudely, and I've also had sisters-in-law politely suggest cleaning help. IT'S WORTH IT! I've been paying $40/week for the past few months and the results definitely affect my mood for the better. Also, it makes the day-to-day work and Pesach prep easier, too.

Do it for yourself, Debbie, not your landlady! It's cheap in NYC.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

After Pesach, I will.

I've talked it over with Jonathan and he agrees - someone twice a month will make all the difference.

But honestly - I'd rather see a house with kids and toys and books than a showplace. I have a feeling your house the way it is *now* (with the cleaning lady) is more comfortable and pleasant than someplace painfully clean.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

But what are their circumstances? Do they have a small, active David running around? Or are their kids older/younger? Do they have cleaning help or are they, like you, doing it all on their own? Or do they have an army of daughters?

And what are their priorities? Yours seems to be taking care of David and Adam and yourself.

[kressel.livejournal.com]

Cleanliness, in and of itself, is a good thing and leads to clear-headedness. It only gets painful when someone turns into a screaming meanie about it.

BTW, smiley icon was youngest's choice.

[iroshi.livejournal.com]

Oh? Which are those?? Because there is a definite roach problem in this apartment, and if there's something *we* can buy that will actually *help* the problem, we'll get it. We always just assumed that in an apartment community, if there's roaches, there's roaches, and you really can't help it. They come and spray every month-and-a-half, but it doesn't help.