HP questions

[mamadeb]

For those of us not caught up in the holiday festivities - or for those who are but need a break from it or from Shabbat prep -



Over the past couple of years, I've heard people refer to Ron as a Seer, even going so far as to give him a brother between Charlie and Percy so that he's actually a seventh son. Can anyone point to instances in the books that might imply that he is, indeed a Seer?

Also. On another note - right now I'm seeing speculation about Wormtail hurting Remus because his hand is silver. And I'm having trouble with that.

Number one - the hand seems more *silvery* than silver. I'll have to reread that bit, but I got the impression that it's a magical construct and doesn't actually contain silver.

Number two - I'm not sure Remus is sensitive to silver. Yes, I know that our mythology has werewolves sensitive to silver, and that can't be ignored, but there's no mention of Remus avoiding the silver cups and plates at Grimmauld Place, and they did make a big deal out of them, with Mundungus trying to see how he could fence them. No mention of Remus using a set of china and stainless steel, for example.

Are the goblets at Hogwarts silver? The plates are golden, so the cups might be, too. And what sort of utensils would he use to eat, given that I don't think they *do* use stainless steel?

My feeling about Remus is that being a werewolf is nothing but a curse for him - he's otherwise as vulnerable as any other wizard to weaponry and attacks. He also must either take a foul potion for a week out of every month or turn into a ravening beast, and his civil rights are severely curtailed.

Comments

[darthfox.livejournal.com]

if i asked really really nicely, would you in the future put speculation behind a cut for the extremely, irrationally spoiler-phobic? (i readily admit that it's totally irrational. feel free to say no, and i'll find other ways to avoid it.) [big brown puppy-dog eyes]

nowthen. i don't think there's any canon evidence of ron being a seer -- but i think the whole knight-to-king concept is way overthought so i'm not especially sympathetic to Theories That Try To Glorify Ron anyway. my feeling is, he's the hero's best friend -- that's what makes him great. (but, you know me. bah. humbug. [g])

[gittygiggles.livejournal.com]

i dont think silver is a problem for werewolves unless their stabbed with a silver bullet...right?

and ron? a seer?

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

I'm so sorry.

Consider it done in the future - but what was spoiled in that post?

And I find K2K amusing and a lot more acceptable that that awful Remus-is-really-James theory that had been around for a bit (and that Rowling shot down so elegantly) but, yeah, I don't think anyone really buys it.

I like Ron. Ron is vital to the storyline - he's the insider, the cultural guide. He's the best friend. He's the strategist. He's the Heart (that is, he's Xander.) He doesn't need to be a seer.

I'm just wondering where it came from.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

It might be poisonous to ingest, even in the quantities that would just be absorbed by food and drink from silver utensils. Or not.

Or its touch might burn him. Or not.

[gittygiggles.livejournal.com]

i'd never heard of a werewolf being affected by only being arround silver things...

[rosehiptea.livejournal.com]

Silver has a wide use in folklore, against werewolves, various undead creatures, and "witches", so I think it depends. In one of my fandoms the vampires can be burned just by touching silver, and silver bullets kill them. I had thought that was only werewolves but apparently there's some basis for the idea.

As for Remus, Rowling could go either way and I think I heard a possible explanation for silver hurting Remus even though he eats at Grimmauld place, but that would indicate to me personally that it means it doesn't hurt him. But I doubt killing werewolves is based on bullets in Rowling when only muggles use guns.

I remember a Harry Potter guide commenting about Ron possibly saying true things without trying (I can't remember exactly how it was phrased... something like "He's insightful --possibly they even said propetic-- when he's joking.") but it's far cry from that to a Seer and I don't think it's true. And it was only a commentary book. He almost failed out of Divination, didn't he? But judging by the teacher, who knows.

But I agree, I think Ron is central enough without being Mysteriously Great and I doubt JKR will go there.

[/long-winded speech]

[gittygiggles.livejournal.com]

obviously i'm not as knowledgable about werewolves as everyone else! then again....i haven't met any that i know of ;)

[darthfox.livejournal.com]

but what was spoiled in that post?

nothing, that i know of. (of course i quickly averted my eyes rather than read the whole thing. [g]) the thing is, i'm so spoiler-phobic that i try to avoid speculation on the off chance that something turns out to have been a spoiler; more often, and a little less freakishly, i try to avoid speculation because the line between speculation and spoiler gets a little fuzzy sometimes, particularly among people who don't mind being spoiled, and it's easier to avoid everything than some things. (for me, anyway.) i didn't know, for instance, that JKR had shot down the remus-is-james theory. :-)

via daily_snitch

[hobviously.livejournal.com]

(re-repost for better HTML. dammit!)

As far as I know people mainly use Arthur's quote in GoF about coming home to find the Dark Mark hanging over your house to imply that there was an attack that killed a Weasley son. I mean, as theories go, it's more constructing clues to reach a foregone conclusion (based on jokes Ron makes coming true, i.e. Harry will get backstabbed by someone he thought he was a friend = Fake!Moody's treachery) than noticeable hints leading to an answer. Erm, I mean, Ron could be a seer, but the seventh son part of the theory isn't very solidly constructed in my opinion.

I should add, as I originally read the theory, it was based on the idea that Ron was the seventh son of the seventh son. However, we now know from JKR's site (http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/extrastuff_view.cfm?id=7) that Arthur is one of only three brothers, and I can't help but think that she may have put that tidbit up there precisely to disprove that theory.

I should add, as I originally read the theory, it was based on the idea that Ron was the seventh son of the seventh son. However, we now know from JKR's site (http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/extrastuff_view.cfm?id=7) that Arthur is one of only three brothers, and I can't help but think that she may have put that tidbit up there precisely to disprove that theory.

Re: via daily_snitch

[hobviously.livejournal.com]

dude, i give up.

[saeva.livejournal.com]

I have to admit that I can't find the exact quote to paste (damn my only .pdf files of the books! *laughs*) but I do vividly recall mention of Remus picking up a silver goblet and drinking from it in OotP, just like everyone else.

So, I don't think he's sensitive to silver, no, and that the fact that Peter's hand is silver is just a red-herring. (The other option being, of course, that it's a flint.)

- Andrea.

From Daily Prophet

[iczer6.livejournal.com]

I remember a Harry Potter guide commenting about Ron possibly saying true things without trying (I can't remember exactly how it was phrased... something like "He's insightful --possibly they even said propetic-- when he's joking.") but it's far cry from that to a Seer and I don't think it's true.

I think the thing is that when Ron's calm he's pretty on the ball and I think that he has a lot more common sense at times then Hermione and Harry.

IMO his biggest flaw is his temper because once he gets angry or upset he just completely loses it.

But like I said I think it's more intelligence and sense then psychic powers.

Re: via daily_snitch

[iczer6.livejournal.com]

As far as I know people mainly use Arthur's quote in GoF about coming home to find the Dark Mark hanging over your house to imply that there was an attack that killed a Weasley son.

I think JKR shot this down as well when she said that Molly was a Prewett[?] before she got married and we know from OoTP that she lost two brothers in the first war.

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

. Ron is vital to the storyline - he's the insider, the cultural guide. He's the best friend. He's the strategist. He's the Heart (that is, he's Xander.) He doesn't need to be a seer.

I'm just wondering where it came from.

Well, I think some of it is exactly from there - Xander is the one who sees. People have taken that to mean he Sees (the way Cordelia did), rather than that he's just really good at reading the emotional temperature of his friends, and seeing how they feel and knowing what to say when it needs saying (ala his speech to Buffy in "The Freshman" and to Dawn in whatever episode it was in season 7).

I've speculated about a child between Charlie and Percy, but that was before Rowling insisted they were only three years apart. and I made it a girl. *g*

[ellid.livejournal.com]

The idea that the ordinary wizarding family would use silver is, I'm afraid, a bit unrealistic. They probably eat off of ordinary china and use stainless steel (which has been around for cheap flatware for over a century - certainly much longer than the radio, which wizards do use and know about). If they used anything besides stainless it would likely be pewter, which is silver-free.
Other possibilities: wood, horn, bone, ceramic, cast iron.

I also seriously doubt that the Blacks used nothing *but* silver dinner service; probably that was for good, while the china and steel were for everyday, just as it is in most rich families.

As for the silver allergy...I wouldn't be surprised if Wormtail uses the silver hand to attempt to kill Remus at some point. It's way too obvious, the remaining Marauders killing each other....

Re: via daily_snitch

[hobviously.livejournal.com]

I don't think the Prewett deaths have anything to do with Arthur's reference, because Moody says that they fought like heroes. So I doubt they were just AKed at home one day.

Of course, Arthur may not even be talking about his own experience. It's all pretty vague.

[hobviously.livejournal.com]

And I find K2K amusing and a lot more acceptable that that awful Remus-is-really-James theory that had been around for a bit (and that Rowling shot down so elegantly) but, yeah, I don't think anyone really buys it.

Lots of people do. I do. Why would lizardlaugh and ixchelmala spend so much time and effort and money explaining their theory in a cogent manner if nobody was listening? K2K has many, many people who think it may be possible, and no small number who think it is quite likely.

Sorry if I come off as overly defensive, but I hate to see one of my favourite theories so casually dismissed.

[divinereverie.livejournal.com]

I don't think Ron is a Seer in canon, but damnit if that doesn't completely steal an idea I had for fandom. Damnit, is nothing original anymore?!!

I don't think Remus is allergic to silver, and he may not even be killed with a silver bullet. There's lots of instances of 'muggle' ideas about mythical creatures being completely false in the books, so this may be just another sidetrack to make us look other ways.

I don't think it's so much the fact that Peter's hand is silver as it is METAL. A metal hand is definately a lot stronger than a flesh one, especially if you're going to strangle someone with your bare hands....

[luthien.livejournal.com]

I believe the idea that Ron is a seer comes from the fact that pretty much everything he predicts/foresees in canon actually does come true. Check out some of the 'joke' prophecies he makes for Divination, and then think about subsequent events. I'm pretty sure someone has put all these instances together in a post somewhere.

Here via the Snitch

[lady1raven.livejournal.com]

The entry on werewolves in "Fantastic Beasts & Where To Find Them" says nothing about silver, so I don't think that Rowling's werewolves are sensitive to it.

And if Ron were a Seer, I think we'd have gotten more hints about it by now. Like Trelawney going out of her way to say that he lacked the Sight, or Harry noticing how good Ron's guesses are.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

She did, after a direct question.

Given that I'm always wrong about these things, I wouldn't worry about anything I say. :)

I will cut-tag in future, though.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

I've speculated on children between Charlie and Percy, too, and, frankly, I don't trust Rowling on "maths." She's already corrected herself once. My own speculation has to do with pureblood inbreeding, though, and I gave them more than one.

Well, Ron isn't that good at seeing emotional stuff, but he's not the Head, because that's Hermione, and he's not the Hands, because that's Harry. He may be the glue of the trio, though.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

Please accept my apology.

I truly believed people were spending time and effort because the theory is *fun* to play with. Which I see as a good enough reason to do it. Because it *is* fun to play with.

Re: via daily_snitch

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

Html - she is a bitch at times. Do not worry about it.

Re: via daily_snitch

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

If Trelawney were a seventh daughter of a seventh daughter, you can be sure she'd say something about it. On the other hand, since she's not and she *is* a Seer, that's clearly not necessary.

And, yeah, a lot of Ron's jokes come true. But that would mean Arthur becoming Minister for Magic.

I think that's been shot down. And, much as I love the man, probably a good thing, too.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

I'll buy that for ordinary families, but if they set the table for *stew* with the Black silver, I'm going to guess that, well, ordinary stuff wasn't available.

I'm going to reserve judgement on the silver allergy. For years, I was convinced that Severus gave Remus his wolfsbane in a silver goblet in PoA, but that's not the case - my mind sees "silver" next to goblet even when that's just not true. (And anyway, there could well be a magical reason for using silver in that case, so it wouldn't prove anything.)

[hobviously.livejournal.com]

Apology accepted. :]

It is indeed very fun to play with. As far as I'm concerned, the crazier a theory sounds, the better - if you can make it work. But we're still cackling in the back because JKR has yet to shoot it down, so.

[texasmeercat.livejournal.com]

<I've speculated about a child between Charlie and Percy, but that was before Rowling insisted they were only three years apart. Unless Percy lost a twin...One WIP fic I'm following has that "The Awakening of a Magus" (Uber-Harry story but very well done). It would explain why he's never happy, never satisfied to be just himself. A broken twin bond would be hard to deal with, especially if you didn't know it was there... My 2c.

[muffytaj.livejournal.com]

One example I remember in CoS is when Ron was joking about what Tom Riddle got his 'special services' award for, and he joked "maybe he killed moaning myrtle, that would have done everyone a favour" or something like that.

I think there are more examples strewn throughout the books, but it's stuff like that that make people get these theories. That an Trelawny saying to Ron "your aura is pulsing" (approx.) in the movie and Rowling making remarks about things in the future books being hinted at in the movie.

Or maybe they think that Ron just isn't 'spechsul' enough. Who knows?

[leni-jess.livejournal.com]

The first reference I ever saw to Ron's being a seer was in Cassie Claire's Draco Trilogy (specifically in ch 12 of Draco Sinister, where Rowena Ravenclaw, on a trip the trio take back in time, identifies him as both a diviner and a seventh son - don't be impressed, all done by Search in Explorer on my hard drive). Given the Trilogy's influence on fandom, and its date of writing, that may be one origin for the idea. I think Cassie invented an intervening son, who died in infancy, to make Ron the seventh, but I can't track that down. Cassie also related Ron's ability with chess to his being a diviner - microsecond foreseeing.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

That's entirely possible. I should ask my husband - he's the Cassie Claire fan in the family.

You know, though, the idea that Ron is good at chess because he can see the future instead of him being good at strategy...that bothers me.

I want him good at strategy. It's a skill neither Harry nor Hermione have and it's an important one.

[greenling.livejournal.com]

Mmh, personally, I like the idea of Ron being a Seer because he finally gets something really special to himself, and because we don't get to explore much about 'real' divination or the mechanics of seeing in canon.

I don't know about Cassie Claire, but the first time I saw it was in a fairly popular series of Harry/Ron fics, and I've seen it in a good few of that pairing afterwards, so it may also be spreading from there.

Remus and Silver

[flameofdeath.livejournal.com]

Many accepted werewolf theories state that the werewolf can touch silver (yes, just as many say NO), however if the silver falls upon an open WOUND, it will burn the said werewolf.

[leni-jess.livejournal.com]

I agree it would be good if Ron had that needed skill, but do we see any examples of him exercising it? In his Quidditch games, even? Just think of all the grief Ron could have saved himself if he'd thought ahead. He may, of course, have the skill, but allow his temper and impulsiveness (both of which have high ratings) to overwhelm it.

Re: Remus and Silver

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

I'd wonder about ingesting silver, though.

Silver can be highly reactive. I routinely drink wine from a silver goblet, and it does affect the taste. Now, the amount would be miniscule, so it might not have an effect at all. And, of course, it can have any affect on Remus that JK Rowling wants it to. :)

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

Oh, Ron's the Heart, just like Xander was. *g*